Table of Contents
- Old Situation
- New Situation (first attempt)
- Assumptions
- Estate Conversion Notes
- Estates
- Ghouls/Retainers/Staff
- Misc. Expenses
- Portfolio
- Balance
- Comments on the first conversion
- The Simplest House™
- New Situation (Second attempt)
- Assumptions
- Estates
- Ghouls/Retainers/Staff
- Misc. Expenses
- Portfolio
- Balance
- Comments on the second conversion
See also the Julia Ashburn's Ledger.
Anything between [ and ] is a future extension and is not calculated in any summation figures or cost figures. They are just there for myself, or to see how future plans would affect cashflow.
I did two conversion, a first attempt and a second attempt. In the first, I tried to convert the estates as they are rated in the old system, to the best of my understanding, in the second I tried to be as cheap as possible without losing anything of direct core value. Both attempts list the complete economic situation, and both attempts have a comments section at the bottom commenting on the attempt.
Reviewing both attempts, I think there is a significant discrepancy between how I understand estate components and their relation to the old estate ratings and the size and capacity of the estates under the old rating system. I seem unable to find a way to convert an Estate of rating 4 to anything resembling a reasonable amount of components. Either the components are way too expensive together, or the number of components is limited in such a way that there no longer seems to be any difference between what was a Rating 2 estate and a Rating 4 estate. As I see it, the only relevant differences between estates are one or two special components like Garden, Art, or Ballroom. Anything beyond that makes them prohibitively expensive.
Old Situation
Estates:
- Halpine House (Rating 4)
- 18 Maiden Lane (Rating 1)
- Bridewater Manor (Rating 2)
Ghouls/Retainers/Staff:
- [staff of 3 investigators/watchpeople/information gatherers for Mr. Vex]
- [Miss Litgate]
Misc. Expenses:
- 1/4 of Coterie Club upkeep
Portfolio:
Wealth 4
- Diversified shares and bonds
- Reskin & Co. (sole owner)
- Baddow Fields Power Station (major owner, backing by Power Plant Club)
Another source of income are the tennants around Bridewater Manor, though in the old situation they are taken into account purely as flavour.
New Situation (first attempt)
This is the first attempt at converting the economic situation of Lady Gallorett to the new system.
This is an estimated conversion of assets, estates and staff "as is" and to my fullest understanding of what estate components are and what they offer, while not taking into account the new budgetary constraints.
All values are new system values, where old system values are meant those is explicitly named.
Assumptions
- Economic Factor is set at 1. This means that any place where the economic factor should be taken into account it is omitted for brevity.
- One estate is designated as primary estate. Head Housemaids and Underbutlers are only necessary for the non-primary estates. (The rules are ambiguous, and can also be interpreted as every estate requiring an underbutler and head housemaid once 3 or more matching gender staff are present.)
- Additional managementment staf do not count towards "every full five". So an estate with 8 maids would gain 1 housekeeper, and 1 additional female staff, and no more. (Contrast with the interpretation of 8+1+1 being 10, making another full five and requiring an additional female staff, making 8+1+1+1.)
- Additional management staff counts towards "5+ staff" with respect to kitchen management.
- It is not possible to "disable" components so one does not have to pay for them. This means that if an estate is acquired and it comes with a stables, it is not possible to not use the stables and skip paying for them. See the notes below for elaboration.
Estate Conversion Notes
During conversion I found that it seems almost mandatory for any estate that is not built as "a simple home" but as an estate to have (2 Living Component, 1 Receiving Component, 1 Stables) due to the fact that they cannot operate as indepent estates otherwise --- and the way the components are worded and given staff requirements seems to indicate they are meant for an actual estate and not a simple house. The rationale is as follows: the double livining components is a direct result of Living Components supporting up to 2 people, and explicitly stating taking it multiple times to cover guest rooms and such. Receiving guests is a crucial if you want to have a social life, and a stables is mandatory if you have a carriage.
It seems to me that real estate does not simply change components because one buys it. Given that the physical stables are present in the game world, I think it would be required to take the Stables component to model this. Otherwise we could just claim to have a really big estate, but not pay for any fragment thereof that is not in active use.
So, the fact that Halpine House already covers stabling needs does nothing to change the fact that Cherrypond Mansion has the stables component by virtue of being a "stand alone" mansion before Lady Gallorettt bought it. The stables are there, so they must be accounted for in the expenses, regardless of whether you want to use them or not.
Estates
Halpine House is designated as the primary estate for any determinations related to rules that need the distinction.
Staff notation: "A role, B role + X role + Y role", with the roles after the plus sign being additional staff required by the rules due to staff count or residents (such as underbutlers and ladies maids).
Staff costs are grouped per staff category line: given 1 female and 2 male staff the costs would be noted as "X + Y+Z".
Halpine House
Base component costs: 45/m
Staff costs: 6 + 8*2+8+4 + 2*3+5+7+1+10+5 + 6+1 = 75/m
(Assuming additional staff is rated at 2: first footman/head housemaid)Rationale: The double living components is due to having hosted both Lady Norfolk and Lady Vallance, which implies needing 2 living components. Double receiving components due to having two drawing rooms, and ante-room, and a library as well as both a large entrance hall and a central hall with a grand staircase. The dining component and stables need no explanation other than being comitted fact due to in-game use. The art component together with the garden component form the "completion" of the planned design of the estate, with the art component partially serving as extended library.
The potential, but not currently included, occult laboratory is on the second floor, and is a functional choice due to wanting a place to research, experiment with, and craft "weird science" and other magical one-of-a-kind items. This component, and the unknown required staff are not factored in.
Halpine House costs: 45 components + 75 staff = 120/m
18 Maiden Lane
Base component cost: 10/m
Staff costs: 6 + 2*2+4 + 3 + 6 = 23/m
Rationale: The living component due to being a home, the receiving component due to wanting Miss Faye to have some space to actually receive a few people without needing to invite them into her private rooms.
Note: Miss Faye is already paid 300/year (old system values), so an argument can be made for not having to furnish living spaces for her. This would mean that Lady Gallorett cannot visit her, and is somewhat against Lady Gallorett's wishes. Unfortunately, the costs are exceedingly high due to the explosive required staff additions: ladies maid for Miss Faye since she is a female resident, which makes 3+ female staff which implies a head housemaid, which brings us to 5+ which requires a cook --- the additional staff together makes up for 16/m :'(
18 Maiden lane costs: 10 components + 23 staff= 33/m
Bridewater Manor
Base component cost: 25/m
Staff costs: 4*2+4 + 3+5+7+1+7 + 6 = 41/m
Rationale: A typical self-sufficient manor house for a country family. Double living components seem expected due to offering living arrangements for up to four people (husband, wife, and 2 other non-child family members such as a grown up child, or a grandparent). Dining component omitted due to not being meant for hosting dining parties, but rather offering housing for a country family.
Bridewater Manor costs: 25 components + 41 staff = 66/m
Cherrypond Mansion
Base component cost: 40/m
Staff costs: 6*2+4+6 + 3+5+5+1+7 + 6+1 = 50/m
(assuming additional female staff is rated at 3: underhousekeeper??)Rationale: Once again, the set of double double living component, receiving component, and stables component seem almost mandatory for a mansion of any non-trivial size. Dining component added because the image, description and original rating of Cherrypond Mansion basically requires it due to having a lot of rooms that need a purpose. Garden Component for the gardens directly surrounding the mansion, and special location for being situatied inside Kew Gardens.
Cherrypond Mansion costs: 40 components + 50 staff = 90/m
Ghouls/Retainers/Staff
Additional staff:
Neither Miss Litgate nor the information acquistion staff are calculated in, due to not having an actual workshop yet, nor having sent Mr. Vex on enough jobs to determine the need and requirements for additional information gathering staff (such as people to watch an address, or someone to tail a target for three days).
Total additional staff cost: 15 + 10 + 10: 35/m
Misc. Expenses
1/4 of Coterie Club
Given that the Coterie Club is:
Costs: 5/m
Miss Faye
Note: Miss Faye is currently paid 300/year (old system values), payments once per year (well, OOCly bookkeeping wise 5 years in advance due to being lazy and not wanting to have to think about it again). I have no clue how she fits in the new system, and since she was paid in advance I'm totally skipping out and ignoring the conversion issue.
Costs: ???
Portfolio
Diversified shares and bonds
Income: 40/m
Reskin & Co. (sole owner)
Expected income: 12/m
Baddow Fields Power Station
Note: any additional received benefit accounts for an expected +6/m. The idea is that 1 benefit point is somehow used to benefit another Power Plant Club asset somewhere --- which kinda locks down the benefit point, but seems to be the only reasonable way for the Power Plant Club to daisy-chain benefits around.
Expected income: 30/m
Tennants around Bridewater Manor
Note: The Business 1 situation is of such paltry income compared to the amount of OOC hassle that it is likely I won't bother with it simply to reduce the amount of profit rolls and bookkeeping.
Expected income: 8/m
Balance
(Expected) Income: 100 + 40 + 12 + 30 + 8 = 190/m Estate expenses: 120 + 33 + 66 + 90 = 309/m Additional staff expenses: 15 + 10 + 10 = 35/m Misc expenses: 5 = 5/m Total expenses: 349/m Balance: -159/m
Comments on the first conversion
These are the mostly unfiltered first thoughts:
Jeez, those components and staff are expensive! Unless I find a way to significantly decrease costs by selectively removing components that seem perfectly fitting to have (which feels really "gamey"), I'll basically have to drop all non-primary estates to keep some spending money. Starting the converted businesses with more benefit points does little to address the issue since a benefit point at the Business 3 level is only worth an expected +6/m.
I feel rather grumpy about this, since it'll basically make Lady Gallorett's estates --- which I feel are a defining feature of Lady Gallorett's presence in the campaign --- exactly the same as everyone else's: just a single estate that features the required basics (living, receiving, dining, stables) and one to three "adaptions" in the form of art, garden, and occult workshop.
Someone like Miss Faye really does not fit in the system, since she is not an employee but rather "financially supported".
Furthermore, the business backgrounds do not seem like they are worth the effort: they cost a significant amount of roleplay time and cost a non-trivial amount of experience. Admittedly, it is rather difficult to measure the cost of 9xp for a Business 3 income against a non-bloodline discipline in terms of utilons. I can try my hand at comparing experience costs between Business and Investment, or see how experience compares to the "estate growth" you can get.
Investment vs Business:
As I see it, Investment gives a more significantly payoff for the invested experience. Raising Investment from rating 3 to 4 costs 6xp, and gives a net income raise of +30/m. This upgrade seems a lot better than buying a Business 3 at 9xp which gives an expected +24/m to start with, and the two backgrounds match up with 1 benefit point in the business. Going from Investment 4 to 5 once again gives a +30/m at a cost of 7xp... So the higher Investment 4 and 5 together are 14xp for +60/m.
After the previous paragraph "gut feeling claims" I have made a calculation of the (profit/month)/experience ratios, due to my curiosity as to the situation. I will gladly share the results with those interested for both double checking and informative purposes. The calculation shows that, looking at the value of an experience point in pounds/month, increasing investment from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and 3 to 4 outperforms a Business 3 unless that business has a profit roll of 8 or more dice, e.g. Agent rating 4 + 4 benefit points.
It is clear that businesses require benefit points to come close to Investment in terms of profit/month/experience. Unfortunately I have no idea on the exact effort required to obtain benefit points and the stability of those points. This is totally fine with this being a new system, but does mean that from my admitedly limited perspective, I'm seeing Investment as the superior choice for getting an increased income.
Hypothetically, living in The Simplest House™ (at a cost of 49 pound/month, see below) and quickly racking up a cache reserve for investments seems prudent: doing so would allow you to gain (51 + Investment dividend)/m in spare cache. For the example of 3 to 4 this would mean 5 months of saving (91/m against the neede 420, given no other expenses). Earlier ratings go faster due to the left over base income, and experience cost is not really an issue on this time scale.
Interestingly, when comparing business in their "just started" state without any benefit points, a Business 1 shares first place with Business 3 with regards to profit/month/experience efficiency --- hypothetically (and rather against the spirit of the rules), if you are not planning on making the effort to get benefit points, spamming Business 1 backgrounds is an efficient route to exchange experience for profit/month.
Estate Growth:
Here I try to compare the experience invested to "actual value" gained in terms of influencing the world through the means available: staff and estate components.
A Business 3 at 9xp produces an income of 24/m; with two benefit points this is raised to 36/m. An Investment increase is a tad easier to compare due to increases using neat multiples of 10.
Practically all components cost 5/m, and require somdwhere between 3-10/m in staff costs. Roughly guessing at an average of 5/m for staffing when looking at multiple components would make an "average component" cost a total of 10/m. Note that this averaging is not done in a principled manner, but in a having-a-look-and-guestimating-the-figures manner.
On the Business side:
Note: All figures based on expected incom. The higher numbers in the ranges are based on expected incomes with optimal size profit dice pools.
On the Investment side (experience costs are total required for indicated rating):
From a purely staff perspective, Male staff rated 4 costs 10/m as well, and female staff rated 4 costs 8/m; lower rates are linearly cheaper and therefore linearly more easy to "amass". If so inclince one could support 3 footman for each 10/m of income, depending on what those "footman" are willing to do (and what the ST allows) this gives a rather large pool of staff for all kinds of activities.
The Simplest House™
Base component cost: 10/m
Staff costs: 6 + 2*2+8 + 3+10 + 8 = 39/m
Rationale: According to my understanding of the proposed rules, this is the simplest house that can be used as primary estate by a single female member of the upper class and still have a social life and be able to receive people in the appropriate manner.
The Simplest House™ costs: 10 components + 39 staff = 49/m
New Situation (Second attempt)
This is the second attempt.
This is an estimated conversion of assets, estates and staff "in the cheapest way", taking into account the new budgetary constraints, and selective removing anything that is not of immediate use to Lady Gallorett. All values are new system values, where old system values are meant those is explicitly named.
Assumptions
Except for the the assumption that it is not possible to "disable" components, all assumptions are those of the first attempt, in addition to:
Estates
Halpine House is designated as the primary estate for any determinations related to rules that need the distinction.
Notations are the same as in the first attempt.
Halpine House
Base component costs: 35/m
Staff costs: 6 + 4*2+6+4 + 3+5+5+1 + 10 = 48/m
(Assuming additional staff is rated at 2: first footman/head housemaid)Rationale: Taking the minimal "established" functions of Halpine House (living, receiving, stables), and ignoring facts established by roleplay (such as hosting 2 guests, or hosting a dinner party). Art and Garden components are luxury extensions.
The Occult Lab/Workshop is not included in any pricing.
Halpine House costs: 35 components + 48 staff = 83/m
18 Maiden Lane
Base component cost: 5/m
Staff costs: 6 + 2*2+4 = 14/m
Rationale: The living component due to being a home. Nothing else. As per my understanding this is not actually enough for a workable social life, but Miss Faye does not have or need a social life on that level (and arguably even providing housing for her is not really necessary). Maybe ladies maid can be omitted too, saving a further 6/m.
18 Maiden Lane costs: 5 components + 14 staff = 19/m
Bridewater Manor
Base component cost: 15/m
Staff costs: 2*2 + 3+5+1+7 + 6 = 26/m
Rationale: Reduced functional estate to minimum necessary to visit. Now houses up to two people and lacks a stable. The garden is clearly an unremovable feature as this is a countryside estate.
Bridewater Manor costs: 15 components + 26 staff = 41/m
Cherrypond Mansion
Base component cost: 25/m
Staff costs: 4*2+4 + 7+1 = 20/m
Rationale: Minimal social arrangments. Garden Component for the gardens directly surrounding the mansion, and special location for being situatied inside Kew Gardens.
Cherrypond Mansion costs: 25 components + 20 staff= 45/m
Ghouls/Retainers/Staff
Additional staff:
Bracketed staff omitted from calculations.
Total additional staff cost: 15 + 10 + 10: 35/m
Misc. Expenses
1/4 of Coterie Club
given that the Coterie Club is:
Costs: 1/m
Miss Faye
Note: Miss Faye is paid 5 years in advance in the OOCly bookkeeping, I'm skipping the conversion.
Costs: ???
Portfolio
Diversified shares and bonds
Income: 70/m
Reskin & Co. (sole owner)
Expected income: 16/m
Baddow Fields Power Station
Expected income: 36/m
Balance
(Expected) Income: 100 + 70 + 16 + 36 = 222/m Estate expenses: 83 + 19 + 41 + 45 = 185/m Additional staff expenses: 15 + 10 + 10 = 35/m Misc expenses: 1 = 1/m Total expenses: 221/m Balance: 1/m
Comments on the second conversion
During the conversion of Cherrypond Mansion and in a lesser sense the other estates, I was doubting whether I was going to far in removing components, but I persisted in removing anything that was not a core function of the estate. This second attempt at conversion feels extremely like min-maxing the heck out of all estates, and makes me feel rather bad about having them around in the cookie-cutter state the end up in.
I have increase the starting benefit points of all Businesses in the portfolio to start with half the maximum of receivable benefits, and removed the annoyingly tedious Business 1. Investment was raised to Investment 4, which seems explainable and feasible by living in Rest for a year while increase Investment every time enough spare cache is accumulated.
Even so, I have a grand total of 1 pound per month of spendable; which seems to me to be way too little given that there will most likely be incidental expenses from shopping (and seeing how Businesses can actually run negative which would require having a bit of buffer either saved, or in the income flow). So this would quickly see me apply the same strategy as in the first attempt, and used by the other players: quickly getting rid of both 18 Maiden Lane and Bridewater Manor so my spendable raises to 58/m. If feasible I would sell off Cherrypond Mansion as well, but I see no way of dropping that estate without creating major IC discontinuites.